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Post by jomeku on Nov 26, 2017 10:34:19 GMT 1
I watched last three boys of the Cup of Tyrol. The commentators were gushing over Deniss and his program both during and after his program, and after Chafik's as well. Deniss won! Congratulations. But, to tell the truth, in a rather weak field. And without quad. If he didn't try it here, where he didn't really had rivals and could risk and try new things, I don't see him trying it this season at all. Which is not good news (and I was the first one to get angry when the only things they were asked last season and the only thing the commentators talked last season was the lack of quads). On a side note, I'm impressed by young Matteo Rizzo, such a great addition to team Italy which I love-love-love. I'm happy for Deniss! Congrats! (to all the medal winners of Team Champéry). Yeah ... I wonder when he will start to try quads, no chance in bigger competitions without. But when I watch Yuzu, Javi or Nathan Chen (Nathan with quad Lutz in combination just yesterday in SP at SA ) they are all very small and rather thin. I do not know a tall and "large shouldered" (and looooong legged) skater who does quads consistently. Is this probably THE big handicap Deniss has -concerning quads? If it's not this, or a health issue ... I would almost start to bet he will have a quad at Europeans next year . ... Diana, I think, is in Stéphane's team not to learn jumps (what she does well already) but for all what (should) come in-between. Not much yet, that's true, but anyway: when I compare yesterdays FS with the one at "Ondrey Nepela" two month ago, I see a clear improvement. Then she literally paused between the jumps, now she does not seem board with the (still few) things she does in-between. I guess her goal is to reach the spot for the Olympics - and this is more easy for her with the jumps, for sure.
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Post by reut on Nov 26, 2017 10:56:00 GMT 1
Hm, isn't Yuzuru rather tall? (update: 172 cm, hm... they looked similar height with Deniss during the practice, but I don't know) Isn't Javi not that slim? Stephane was the first to say to Deniss not to look at others when Deniss mentioned being shorter as "special talent". What makes you wish to bet on Euros when he didn't try it in small competition now? At Euros he needs to look at his best to gain some credit from judges towards Olys. (Just for the record, I don't think that quad is everything and I don't care if Deniss never gets on the podium of big competitions, I enjoy his skating and I definitely see the improvement in him with every single competition, but I think he pretty much does care about medals and all that, at least that's what he says). I don't really know why Diana is in Stéphane's team, to tell the truth (except the cat name story ). From what he said she didn't come to him with the set of mind which he shares with Deniss, for example. He said she believes if jumps are good all is fine. And, well, didn't she get the proof to that just yesterday (her every component grew overnight almost by point, doesn't it show how flawed the component score actually is)? I guess, Stéphane tries to change her approach, at least, this is what he said, but the improvement I see since Nepela is mostly in jumps. I'm 99% sure she got her spot already. She is extremely lucky that Angelina has her meltdown exactly now but was fit enough to grab last spot at Worlds. Because I doubt Diana would have been able to get that spot at Nebelhorn (judging by her skating at Nepela). But the timing was really good for her: Angelina got her spot, no need to bother with that, and now Angelina is no competition at all (I checked her last results, they are... awful, I really don't know what is going on with her but it's definitely not good...). I'm really, really sorry for Angelina. Also, because I don't think in four years the situation will be better for her, now was her chance and she worked for it but I have no idea what happened in summer and this erased all her chances. Sport is not fair, life is not fair... Someone got lucky. I hope Stéphane has fun with Team Latvia in Korea, with no burden of actual results there all three of them definitely should have fun and just enjoy this adventure!
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Post by jomeku on Nov 26, 2017 12:24:38 GMT 1
Yuzu height 1.71 m - google says - with 53 kg of weight . I guess both measures are quite constant in the last few years. Still I think Deniss' features do not make it easier for him to jump quads. I do enjoy his skating a lot, too ... and i do admit I DO care if he gets on a podium of big competitions or not. Because - as you say - HE does care. And I think there's no better motivation for such a young person to improve than competitions. And for the selfish reason: I love to watch competitions, bigger ones live at TV ; and it's just more 'thrilling' for me if Deniss skates ... (on a side note: Yes, it's true also that 'it 'does no harm' that he's part of 'TeamChampéry' and that we get to see an important member of the team thanks to those competitions...). What makes me wish to bet on Euros? 1. There are two months til then - good time to practice. 2. Earlier this year Stéphane said, Deniss might try a quad during one of the FaOI shows. He didn't. So maybe he takes the chance during Christmas on Ice or another show? 3. IF he wants to be on the European podium, he MUST. We'll see . Diana. When she went to train in Champéry she certainly was aware that the main accent for improvement would be on the artistic aspect. If not, I don't know why. In any case she seems to be happy there and it was a pleasure to see her happy in the K&C yesterday. And Stéphane looked pleased too: Maybe it shows that he's applying what he said in one of your talks one or two years ago: he wants to get out the best of the skaters abilities; what does not implicitly mean he/she will be among the top of the top skaters, but reach to their personal top (this wonderful talk of yours when you cited a teacher/philosopher(?) and talked about Stéphane's coaching philosophy. I'll search for this talk later, did not find it right now. But it's a good occasion to look for and read it again - later) . 'Sport is not fair, life is not fair ... Someone got lucky.' .... I guess that's the way it is. ... Wish them fun without burden in Korea, too.
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Post by reut on Nov 26, 2017 12:41:10 GMT 1
Yes, I remember him saying that. But here I have my own selfish interests. If I don't see him on the ice, I want to see beautiful skating from his students. If he "sacrifices" his own skating for his students (I'm sure he DOESN'T see it like that, this is my perception only), I want his students' skating worth that "sacrifice". Out of all his skaters I'm still puzzled why he took Diana. Noah and Noémie - 1) he works with them since 2012; 2) he said he wants to improve Swiss skating and they are promising Swiss skaters; Deniss - very promising, talented and very similar in his approach and mindset to what Stéphane himself looks for in skating, he definitely "continues his legacy" in his work with Deniss (in a good way, not duplicating himself... well, almost ); Koshiro - long time friendship, similar problems, Stéphane long time connections with Japanese federation. Diana? He said to me that many, many others wanted to be coached by him but he denied, and out all those many others she was the best choice? Weird. God forbid she reads what I write next (PLEASE, DON'T). She is young and she has 3Lz-3T which is promising, technically she is promising (I guess?). But she doesn't have graceful body structure and I don't see her improving there a lot. I also don't see her working on that. He said she loves music, I don't see her being musical and feeling the music. The only emotions and vibes I got from her skating is a joy from succeeding with the next jump. She might be a sweet child, I have no idea, don't know her (K&C interactions are sweet, yes). But a good, artistic, emotional and emoting skater? I don't see her getting there, I'm sorry. Quite an average lady skater who if she has a good day with jumps might get to some decent place on small competitions and maybe even on European level. And I'm sorry I sound so bitter. But Ari has now shows in Europe, and I'm almost sure he would've invited Stéphane. And sometimes I'm terrified of thinking how not much time is left for him to perform...
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Post by reut on Nov 26, 2017 12:53:45 GMT 1
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Post by jomeku on Nov 28, 2017 11:30:09 GMT 1
Yes, I remember him saying that. But here I have my own selfish interests. If I don't see him on the ice, I want to see beautiful skating from his students. If he "sacrifices" his own skating for his students (I'm sure he DOESN'T see it like that, this is my perception only), I want his students' skating worth that "sacrifice". (...) And I'm sorry I sound so bitter. But Ari has now shows in Europe, and I'm almost sure he would've invited Stéphane. And sometimes I'm terrified of thinking how not much time is left for him to perform... Not much time left, yes ... . Ari's shows? Do you mean the "Kings on ice shows"? Stéphane always was much appreciated in eastern Europe countries ... It would have been a good occasion to show up their once again, I think. IF some actual top skaters retire after this season, they might be in the first plan to get invited in the future, I suppose ... (just my fears to see him even less in the future)... ... That's the interview/talk I was talking about above: www.absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2015stephanelambiel (it has been posted and (re-)mentioned here before; but I think it's interesting to repeat reading it once in a while as it gives a good insight on Stéphane's working philosophy as coach ... Thank you pianomaya, for your videos from Cup of Tyrol ! How lucky we are that you were there ! I don't think I need to post them here .... as they appeared "everywhere else" already. So the (few) people who read on this board certainly have seen them already, I suppose !(?)
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Post by fourthdimension on Nov 28, 2017 21:32:58 GMT 1
Yes, I remember him saying that. But here I have my own selfish interests. If I don't see him on the ice, I want to see beautiful skating from his students. If he "sacrifices" his own skating for his students (I'm sure he DOESN'T see it like that, this is my perception only), I want his students' skating worth that "sacrifice". Out of all his skaters I'm still puzzled why he took Diana. Noah and Noémie - 1) he works with them since 2012; 2) he said he wants to improve Swiss skating and they are promising Swiss skaters; Deniss - very promising, talented and very similar in his approach and mindset to what Stéphane himself looks for in skating, he definitely "continues his legacy" in his work with Deniss (in a good way, not duplicating himself... well, almost ); Koshiro - long time friendship, similar problems, Stéphane long time connections with Japanese federation. Diana? He said to me that many, many others wanted to be coached by him but he denied, and out all those many others she was the best choice? Weird. God forbid she reads what I write next (PLEASE, DON'T). She is young and she has 3Lz-3T which is promising, technically she is promising (I guess?). But she doesn't have graceful body structure and I don't see her improving there a lot. I also don't see her working on that. He said she loves music, I don't see her being musical and feeling the music. The only emotions and vibes I got from her skating is a joy from succeeding with the next jump. She might be a sweet child, I have no idea, don't know her (K&C interactions are sweet, yes). But a good, artistic, emotional and emoting skater? I don't see her getting there, I'm sorry. Quite an average lady skater who if she has a good day with jumps might get to some decent place on small competitions and maybe even on European level. And I'm sorry I sound so bitter. But Ari has now shows in Europe, and I'm almost sure he would've invited Stéphane. And sometimes I'm terrified of thinking how not much time is left for him to perform... I’ve been thinking about your comments, Reut, because I feel similarly, and I went back to watch Diana’s last two seasons. In 2016-17, she had lots of potential - not grace, exactly, but speed and energy - and then in the last season, she seemed slow and clunky. But she was injured. I do see significant improvement in components since Nepala - especially in the short. She was committing to the choreography at least, and seemed to be feeling more in the program than the jumps. So I want to be hopeful. I don’t like the FS - and it does seem odd that Stéphane is ok with such a generic, featureless program. I assume Diana is choosing to leave out transitions that were originally there. I am hoping she will surprise us next week, now that she has more confidence. Not every skater stays the same, if they keep skating over more years. I recently watched some early programs from Carolina, and was so surprised at how little gracefulness and line she showed as a teenager. So I’ll hope for the best, and Stéphane to pull out more from her. I wouldn’t be caring much about her skating otherwise, but I am glad Diana is in Champéry, if only to keep sharing qualify Instagram content! I hope they have lots of fun at the Olympics, without the pressure of medaling. (Deniss can win gold in 2022 😉)
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Post by fourthdimension on Nov 29, 2017 16:18:09 GMT 1
I was looking at this old interview with Diana, and I think it explains some of why Stéphane might like working with her... "I love ice so much that I would live there, as long as I can! When I go out on the ice, I get the feeling of freedom. I want to do more, even better, to be perfect, so that I can show myself in the competition and also others would appreciate it," says Diana Nikitina. "...I need better, better and better so that it looks very beautiful. I want to improve the skating, jumps, to make it perfect and to have no inaccurate detail." sportacentrs.com/ziemas_sports/slidosana/30122015-nikitina_man_vajag_lai_viss_ir_perfekti
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Post by reut on Dec 2, 2017 18:20:32 GMT 1
fourthdimension, I feel like I already wrote too many words about the skater I wasn't quite impressed with. So let's agree to disagree on certain points. And I certainly see much more grace in Carolina circa 2003. And yes, Diana's SP is better (and was not bad today at Nats), but mostly because Salome did great job with hiding things Diana is not good at, like musicality (with a very strong rhythm you don't really need to be musical to be able to make main movements in it), grace (the whole style is different and suits her better), flow, etc. And overall short program has less transitions and "things between elements", so you less feel the "nothing". Stephane choreographed FS trying to make Diana to grow (I guess that was his idea behind this music choice?) more in directions she is less good at and so far all transitions were just thrown away, the mood is not there, the program is not there. Like I wrote, I don't quite understand why he took an average lady skater if, like he says, so many others wanted to join and he had to decline. But, first, maybe others were less good. Second, it's also OK to take the student who pays your bills as, I guess, financially situation with Diana is quite different and her parents could simply buy her a coach she was such a fan of that she called her cat as him. In general I am Stephane's fan, not his students'. So my priorities are a bit different. First of all it's his own skating, the most precious treasure we have and unfortunately will be able to admire for just few more years only. Second his well-being. And only third his close circle, among them students who can also influence second point as, for example, make him happier. And, of course, being his fan I wish him only students who are very best and at the top, only "yuzuru hanyus and yuna kims", not less. Because in general I wish him all the best in the world, you know. His students are yet not there, at all. And this upsets me. Videos from today's first day at nationals: www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfD041TNzIE - Deniss www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH10ZsaEG0s - Diana
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Post by fourthdimension on Dec 2, 2017 18:31:48 GMT 1
Yes maybe we should agree to disagree. I do understand your point of view. And it’s very interesting what you said about choreography that disguises weakness versus choreography that tries to push growth and improvement.
I was glad to see both Deniss and Diana skate well in front of a home crowd. With no real pressure, I guess that is easier, but still nice to see.
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Post by reut on Dec 4, 2017 17:51:13 GMT 1
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Post by reut on Dec 4, 2017 19:54:11 GMT 1
Sorry, jomeku, I missed your post. Not much time left, yes ... . Ari's shows? Do you mean the "Kings on ice shows"? Stéphane always was much appreciated in eastern Europe countries ... It would have been a good occasion to show up their once again, I think. IF some actual top skaters retire after this season, they might be in the first plan to get invited in the future, I suppose ... (just my fears to see him even less in the future)... Yes, those shows. Last year if I'm not mistaken, too lazy to check, he was supposed to take part in shows in Tallinn & Riga (?) but couldn't because of Deniss and Rostelecom, so he did another show somewhere in Europe later. I'm not afraid about more skaters retiring after Olys, I think he will stay the first, the best and at high demand even then. Loooooved that talk! Great, great memories.
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Post by reut on Dec 5, 2017 20:15:02 GMT 1
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Post by jomeku on Dec 21, 2017 12:10:34 GMT 1
Many thanks to the t ranslator! And many thanks also, t aipeifollowers, for uploading this from Latvian TV on youtube: www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=iNzNe5EEG7YIt's very interesting, and shows once again how hard it is to reach to the top, in figure skating as in any sport. Full admiration to everyone who has the courage and strength to go the long path. It's also touching how Stéphane patiently responds to Deniss' emotional state. I guess it helps him to remember the (sometimes explosive) states he himself used to be in (from time to time, at least ) and how his coach Peter Grütter helped him to overcome. Sometimes I ask myself if it's always easy for those young people to live in such a remote place like Champéry, with few possibilities to change the mindset from time to time. I would think that would be important for them, too!?
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Post by reut on Dec 21, 2017 14:15:46 GMT 1
Well, technically it's not SO remote, you know. Take a train and in a hour you are on Swiss Riviera. But living in a big city gives certain opportunities, of course. As much as I adore Champéry, me personally I wouldn't be able to live there I think. P.S. Really loved that Latvian documentary and really loved how Stephane tried to handle things.
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