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Post by lutz on Oct 23, 2010 17:32:28 GMT 1
It's just too much of a program for Ten, he is too young and immature. But Denis is not to blame for it, the blame is his choreographer's - a good choreographer chooses the music and constructs a program for a skater not just in compliance with the skater's wishes and his own taste, but also takes the skater's real abilities and skills into account. IA. I really loved this program, maybe because it reminded me of some of my favorite programs from Stéphane (Carne Cruda, Otoño Porteño, etc). However I have to admit it's way too complicated for a teenager. My impression is that Denis DID try his very best to understand, to express the music while doing all the difficult elements. Considering his age and he is still growing on the technical side, his performance (and also the result) was not bad at all. The problem, at least for me, is that I can easily picture how Stéphane could skate to this program and then involuntarily compare it with Denis's skating, for the music and choreography is so "Stéphane". I have a complex feeling because 1) the program has great potential, it would be great if Stéphane could skate or if Denis could skate to it when he grows older; 2) a choreographer can't always find a perfect "vehicle". did our young choreographer realize it, or could he find balance between his creativity and his "pupil"'s capability FOR NOW? It is easier said than done. So I think we need to be patient. However it is still a decent program. Much better than a lot of music=merely-background-sound programs in this season (OFC Stéphane can never make any meaningless program. ). As for Denis, I really appreciate him dares to take risks to collaborate with an inexperienced (and busy!) choreographer. It might be too early for him to skate to Piazolla, but he'd skated to Rachmaninoff when he was even younger and IMO his performance was impressive then. I guess we can still expect more from him as the program grows on him. Maybe he's so young to understand the deep meanings, but he can still show what he could feel as far as possible. And for a young skater, to learn to understand something new is better than stay in his comfortable zone. I think we all have had the same experience: we didn't understand something when we were young but somehow we tried to learn it, then years later, we benefit from it. Denis is very young and immature as a skater, while Stéphane is also very young and immature as a choreographer. Both of them still have a lot to learn. It's hardly to expect something extraordinary from the very begining. The result of the first attempt is good enough, I think, very encouraging.
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Post by sigrid on Oct 23, 2010 18:10:34 GMT 1
Well I think that his first competitive program as a choreographer is quite good. Denis is very young and I'm sure he'll control his movements better later in the season. You can absolutely see Stephane through Denis's choreo Stephane will also learn to create programs according to the skater skills, it's a good beginning IMO
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Post by elanor on Oct 23, 2010 18:45:47 GMT 1
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFIsqZaeWWs&feature=player_embeddedThank you. The competition was at some indecent time and I missed it, I was curious to see the video. It's not masterpiece but pretty nice work for both of them. Generally, I'm fed up with Piazzola's tangos but this music is beautiful, you can always count on Stephane's programs having great music, very well edited that makes complete sense as a whole and it is not that common for skating at all. One great quality of good choreographer, Davis Willson is very good with it too, that's why his programs are always pleasent to watch, if sometimes rather generic it doesn't bore as much as some others (at least, for me). I think Stephane's has this kind of vision of the program too. The choreography is not amazing and I can't say I'm in love but it works fine. Complex steps but I think overall it is not as it would be done for Stephane himself, some things were simplified with less nuances. The only complaint is about too much front loading. I know most programs look like this but it's not excuse. Now I would like to see long program from him. Maybe next season. This season there are so many changes that's hard to follow. I dislike all those spins with so many changes of positions that makes them very slow and labored, the guys are really struggling with it right now. I thought Denis handled it pretty well. Yes, it's not quite there and the program looks adult for him, he might be better with something simpler and lighter but maybe he needs it to grow. It's not his time yet.
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Post by annelfie on Oct 24, 2010 23:25:21 GMT 1
Here's yet another version of Amelia by Takahashi. www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzcF_JTG_DcI will have to watch it more often to form an opinion. I suffer from camera-changes and totally wrong angels for me. He skated it this weekend at NHK in Japan. Daisuke won the competition, skated beautiful programs btw, Jeremy Abbott's LP was wonderful to the music of La vita e bella: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjZxrwPocrMSalut, Annelfie
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Post by annelfie on Nov 13, 2010 20:59:49 GMT 1
Here's the SP of Denis Ten at Skate America this weekend. www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLbJxUF8ZEMHis jumps didn't go very well, perhaps that's why he had no energy left for presentation. What do you think? Salut, Annelfie
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Post by EMJO on Nov 13, 2010 23:43:16 GMT 1
Dennis is only 17 years old and I think he is doing very well with the presentation in this program.I dont think he lost it due to some tecnical mistakes.I really like the step seq.He has an" attack" I havnt seen from him before.I think Stephane has given him a great program to grow with, spec presentation wise.So in other words not too difficult and not to easy in any way.
Maria
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Post by gundam on Nov 14, 2010 7:24:18 GMT 1
despite those mistakes,the program is pretty good.It's a good start for Stephane although I think Denis Ten is very young and could do some much more easier programs to get better result,I respect his trying
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Post by freefall on Nov 15, 2010 20:49:42 GMT 1
Thanks for the link, annelfie! And here is Dai and his Amelie from the same event - www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkNU3g56L7oMy thoughts: Denis looked exhausted during the whole program, so I don't blame him - it just wasn't his day. And you know in the end I like Denis' attitude towards Stephane's choreography much better than Daisuke's. Ten seems to like and respect Stephane's work and tries his best to keep as much of the original spirit of the program as he possibly can. Dai on the contrary is simplifying his Amelie more and more as time goes on, and the original spirit of this program which touched me so deeply in the first performance is for now almost as good as gone. Because the very beauty of this Amelie is in little, refined and meaningful movements, and Dai completely lost the preciseness of his moves he had during the first performance and looks very relaxed on the ice now what destroys all the magic of the program, makes it look empty. I understand that every skater adopts the program for himself - but what Dai does is definitely not adoption in its best sense: he didn't invent or add anything new of his own, just simplified and made shaky all the moves and even stopped doing some of them at all. I think the reason of it is that Dai is used to be relaxed during the Ex numbers and very rarely really pushes himself to give his best there.
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Post by pia on Nov 15, 2010 22:27:46 GMT 1
I read freefall's post and went to watch Amelie's different phases. For me Amelie's very first version in DOI has the most intense effect even when everyone said that Daisuke is just like Stephane himself skating there. Later Daisuke adapted it more and more for his own skating what is of course a right thing to do. There is a series of very beautiful spins near to the end, very original positions. Pity that Daisuke don't do any more this spin: i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy115/piapia_2010/spin.jpg
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Post by freefall on Nov 16, 2010 9:52:32 GMT 1
For me Amelie's very first version in DOI has the most intense effect even when everyone said that Daisuke is just like Stephane himself skating there. The same for me As for the spin I liked this position very much and found it very elegant unlike usual Dai's spin positions, but that's what I was talking about in my previous post - Dai changed (or mostly just lost) the most precious moves of the program, and what's left is not even half as impressive as it was meant to be
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Post by surfinia on Nov 16, 2010 11:48:56 GMT 1
I agree, Daisuke has simplified Amelie and also its SP and LP, but it shows less because they are explosives programmes with less detailed precision in the moves. Stephane is always very clean and precise "as a Swiss watch" I think this is what gives the impression of purity to his skating, he is also a perfectionist as a dancer on the ice. Amelie is a very demanding program with finesse choreography, like many skaters Daisuke is not a dancer, his moves are never really "finished and clean" and in a composition as Amelie precision it shows a lot.
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Post by estephania on Nov 16, 2010 19:35:04 GMT 1
Oh - I can perfectly understand you all. Have had the same feelings already after the EX on NHK. Then I friend of mine put the Ex of Amelie from DoI and NHK in the same frame. Wow - that was very interesting! There have been some moves only a tiny little bit different skated by Dai the second time and it made such a big impact. However what made the most differences between the two performances was to discover that most of it was founded "thanks" of the angle of the camerawork .... IMHO at SA we have again a cameraangle we didn't have had before what let the program look quite different then the two times before. Given to this I assume, when I would have been able to sit all three times at the same place of venue watching Dai's Amelie live, it might be that the difference wouldn't have look as big as it looks from watching the three broadcast versions we have available by now. Saying that, I agree with freefall and others that the first performance of Dai's Amélie was the most impressive I've seen on TV.
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Post by EMJO on Nov 16, 2010 23:26:12 GMT 1
Thank you Estephania! That makes perfect sence...I remember some time ago, people were discussing the Bielman spin and who of the women had the best or rather the most flexible one so to say.They used photos as example but forgot that angels are important and can make everything look very different.
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Post by Nadin on Dec 8, 2010 23:23:40 GMT 1
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Post by elanor on Dec 14, 2010 1:07:13 GMT 1
Amelie exhibition from GPF with some fluff with Stephane, I don't remember if I saw it before. Did they say something interesting there? www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4nBrZJAxxEI read comments and they are a bit harsh for Takahashi. Yes, there is a lot that might be done better, but to be fair the program is the exact opposite to what his main strenghts are. He does the best programs that are based on strong, rhythm and outward expression using a lot of upper body movement (excessive for me) to show passion rather than focus on details and nuances and changing moods or interpretative complexities. Didn't he say that the program was difficult for him? I can see why. And the program where the spin is one of the emotional climaxes since he's rather a weak spinner compared to other guys. I appreciate his effort, it's a beautiful program when he doesn't rush through the movements. And the spin sequence looks better than anything he does in competition in this department, it's nice.
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